pushy hardsell of aweber a serious blooper!
After my email proclaiming my LOVE of Aweber, I received many interesting questions and comments. Many positive. A Few negative. And a LOT of questions about WHY I love Aweber so much.
Here’s an email from a very nice lady I seem to have offended:
My Response:
Nicole,
I can appreciate your thoughts.
However, everything I say is based on my personal experiences.
You mention several people having trouble with Aweber, that may be the case, but it’s not something I’m aware of.
What I know is this…dozens of experienced marketers and friends of mine are switching to Aweber in droves because of terrible, and extremely costly DROPS in income as a direct result of their email messages not getting delivered.
I’m talking horror stories like 20-30% delivery.
As for people switching from Aweber to host their own autoresponder software - I wish them best… but predict the worse.
My personal experience with Aweber is extensive and I have NEVER had a problem ever… the broadcasts go out in minutes and get delivered, the advanced name personalization feature is priceless, and the customer support is second to none.
So I won’t take back what I said because I STAND BY my comments 100% and we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
As for bullying people to make sales I hardly think so - I was just getting across the extreme importance of my advice and how strongly I feel about it.
I was trying to make the email engaging, interesting and entertaining.
Judging from the feedback I’ve received — I succeeded.
Love me or hate me… I tell it like I see it and don’t plan to stop anytime soon.
Peace.
-Lavery
P.S. What service/script is your IDEAL autoresponder?
I’m waiting with an open mind…Make your case!
Or you can just leave a comment below and tell me if you agree with Nicole or me… Am I bully marketer or am I just telling it like I see it? Tell the world what you think, and do it NOW! Thanks.
P.P.S. If you want to expereince first hand why I LOVE Aweber like I do… take a free test drive.
September 11th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
Hi Joe,
I agree 100%. AWeber is the best options for a HUGE majority of Internet marketers. From people just starting out, to BIG TIME marketers like Mike Filsaime.
Hosting your own script has SO MANY pitfalls that you don’t even realize - blacklisting, white-listing, CRON jobs, maximums setup by your host, up-time of your host, bandwidth costs, who do you call for tech support, and on and on.
Stick with a proven leader.
To YOUR Success,
Dan Kelly
www.MiniSiteSecretsRevealed.com
September 11th, 2006 at 2:55 pm
Joe,
I agree 100% with your assessment of Aweber.
As for Nicole, I suggest she sign up with 1ShoppingCart or purchase her own script and see how many of her emails get through.
It’s laughable to think that marketers are switching to their own hosted autoresponders when it fact the opposite is true.
Maybe she’s referring to all of the white label versions of Aweber that keep popping up lately as marketers realize the potential behind having their own version of Aweber working for them.
Jason
September 11th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
I don’t agree with either one of you I recommend autoresponderplus there is no recurring charges.
Top guns like Mark and Tellman are using it!
September 11th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Hi Joe,
I LOVE AWeber and have been with them almost a year now.
I had another autoresponder that just disappeared on me last year. The site went down and Pfft!!! Nada. Luckily I had saved my list the day before or it would have been a real disaster.
So, I went to Email Aces. Pffft!!! I entered my list names, etc., and after 4 days, the re-verification emails hadn’t even been sent!
I cancelled my account.
Because AWeber is used by some of the big names in marketing, I decided to try them out. It’s a little more expensive than some others, but WOW! I was so impressed! They even called me on the telephone to welcome me.
I’ve never had a problem with AWeber and my delivery rates are running at 100%. As you mentioned, can’t say that about all autoresponders.
AWeber is awesome, and I’d recommend it to anyone.
I didn’t mind your email one bit. When a trusted source, such as yourself, offers a product. I know it’s good. This time, I can say–100% true.
Best,
Pat Marcello
September 11th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Joe, my objection to the email is that it was, well… poorly done. Basically, all I heard when I read it was “Use aweber or you will die.” Really, why? You talked about disasterous results if we don’t use aweber… can you quantify any of that? You mention higher deliverability - based on what? What is their deliverability rate? compared to arp3?
Of course, as I write this, you have a banner for intellicontact at the top of your page.
So, here’s the deal… sometimes your stuff just screams “pay me some money.” Sometimes it doesn’t. When it doesn’t, I’m glad I haven’t unsubscribed. When it does, I wonder why I still am.
BTW, this is not at all written as a flame but because I care
September 11th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
Hey Joe,
I do agree! BUT, even if I didn’t I commend you on taking a stance. I get tired of all the wiffly waffly comments and advice. And to me, there is a difference between “hype” and “taking a stance”.
Now, I have slept since your email, but what resonates with me, isn’t that it was so much of a “pitch”, you didn’t say BUY - BUY - BUY. You said you believe in this so strongly that you wouldn’t take on clients that were not using Aweber.
I say “bravo”.
So many business people want to bend and capitulate to every opinion and every silly request that a customer makes that there business ends up with a bunch of “poor” customers.
As a businessman, who believes in this philosophy, When a customer says “your price is high”, I don’t gulp hard and start lowering my price.
I say…your darn right it’s high! If price is your only concern, there is no harm in saying so and you can tell me now, I have lots of clients that pay my higher price for very good reasons.
What would you like to do?
And they either tell me to hit the road…or we have a discussion on what concerns them more than price.
Joe, I am not telling you anything you don’t already know, You have a right to your opinion, you have a right to make a stance and I hope you continue to do so.
Some will tell you to hit the road.
Others…your “perfect” customers will stay!
Take Care,
Travis
September 11th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Joe,
I must agree that your tactics leave much to be desired/disdained. There are many solutions to the auto response issue and many reputable services available at various price ranges. GetResponse for example, one of the most reliable, costs only $87.70 every six months for the PRO version which is a dream to work with. They have many other features and services available in the marketer’s realm that put them head and shoulders above cheaper rivals and wanna-bees. And if you’re building a list for purpose of marketing, the cost is a trivial issue.
Also since many of us are really amateurs or newbies at this marketing madness on the internet, some truly savvy professionals have created systems that actually include competent auto responders within the system such as Simple Money Machines recently put out by Wayne Van Dyck. His idea is to simply remove the technology issues and allow you to get about the business of marketing and the resulting cashflow.
(see attached website link)
There are many other solutions to getting really good open rates on your emails as well. Sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with the auto responder itself. For example, Dori Friend created e-filtrate as one of the most critical services available to marketers. When you create your emails, it is imperative to discover what the likelyhood of delivery will be relative to the content and structure, not to mention obvious trigger words and phrases that will get your emails caught in the spam filters … and of course never delivered. I believe that such services are even more important than the auto responder service.
My advice as a student of up and coming marketing gurus is quite simple and applies to you as well. It’s not necessary to force feed your ideas and preferences. Using a well grounded approach devoid of hype and hypnosis will make for a much stronger list of interested advocates willing to hear you out. Personal growth is something all of us need just like sunshine, water and subsistence.
Cheers,
BoB O in Annapolis, Maryland USA
owner of way too many websites to mention,
but you can reach me at SafeportSolutions@gmail.com
September 11th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Aweber may or may not be good, but other responders are also as good, how many have you tried to be able to claim that anyone not using Aweber is not worth dealing with?
Have you dealt with all the people not using Aweber responders, or refuse to on principle, because you could just miss working with the next Mike Filsaime or whoever because they chose a different responder from the one you use and recommend.
September 11th, 2006 at 5:27 pm
Hi Joe,I have been on your list for I think 2 years,and I love reading your e-mail.You tell it like it is and I do to.If some people disagree why the “Heck” are they on your list?They don,t have to be,If they don,t like the truth you don,t need them anyway. Keep Up The Good Work.Nothing wrong with your E-mails I LOVE them. Keep Them E-Mails Coming:) Your #1 admirer. Betty
September 11th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Joe,
It’s true that many top marketers are making the switch to their own server-based AR solution (like AR+) but they’re often failing to tell the “common folk” about the pitfalls with this choice.
Pitfalls they have likely built an infrasturcture and staff to overcome.
A simple read over AOL’s whitelisting policy to assure delivery is enough to send cold chills down your spine, and EVERY major ISP has a similar policy. It takes a lot of work to assure email delivery nowadays and I fear that many making the switch to “their own” solution will be UNpleasantly surprised.
You can’t beat $19.95 per month to get the kind of service, support, and most of all the assured DELIVERABILITY that AWeber and other professional bulk email company’s provide.
I admire you for sticking to your guns. Too many people nowadays “beat around the bush” when it’s easier and more effective to just get to the point.
And if they disagree, worst case they can unsubscribe. People are so touchy anymore.
Keep up the good work.
All the best,
Lee Collins
September 11th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
well, it’s like this. I don’t care about the “aweber or not” issue - although I definitely prefer a hosted solution to rolling my own.
On the other hand, I seriously dislike wading through several popups to get to your blog to check the comments. And fortunately, I know that aweber handles unsubs very well.
Greg
September 11th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
For email deliverability there are only two choices.
Email Aces and Aweber.
Using anything else is russian roulette with your business in my opinion.
I have a dedicated server and could easily add a script to handle this but after looking at the information that would be needed and to be kept up with just to keep the service whitelisted. My deliverabilty would be less and the small charge that Aweber takes every month is more than offset in sales some of which would be lost with using my own autoresponder.
You were right and actually gained some standing in my eyes. I agree with everything in your initial email and have learned the hard way there are some things you leave to the professionals. Using another autoresponder has cost me literally 100’s of times what I thought I saved.
Mike Paetzold
September 11th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Aweber rocks - that’s who I use!
September 11th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Joe -
I agree AWeber is one of the best autoresponder systems out there, and that a hosted service (like AWeber) makes sense for many marketers.
However, we are long-time users of AutoResponse Plus, running on our own system. I prefer the control this gives us, and ARP is an excellent system. We average around 94% deliverability, and yes, we do have numerous AOL and other “freebie” addresses on our lists. I wish all our JVs could do as well.
I think the hosted/in-house decision for any marketer requires an accurate analysis of your own capabilities and preferences. If you (or your staff) are comfortable and competent installing and managing your own server software, and are willing to devote the necessary time and effort to ISP whitelisting, and all the other tasks that go with maintaining your own system in-house, then this can be an excellent solution.
If you’re not comfortable with these tasks, or would rather spend your time elsewhere, a hosted solution is the better choice. The drawback is that you can suffer for the sins of other marketers who use the same host: if they get in trouble with an ISP, you’re in trouble, too. (Note: AWeber seem to do an excellent job managing their users; not all AR hosts do.)
Finally, most of my clients with very large lists - several hundreds of thousands of current records - use one of the full-featured (and expensive) Email Service Providers, who provide autoresponders as part of the package.
I know of marketers who use ARP, AWeber, and full-service ESPs that I’d be happy to partners with. I’m sure you know some of them, too. But a touch of hyperbole can often get your message read. (Conversion may be another matter…)
All the best in all your marketing efforts,
- Steve
September 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Joe,
Having run many email systems over the years, I concur with your stance that any marketer *must* check out the deliverability of their list by whatever autoresonder service they choose.
Not choosing a service will add *significant* work on your part to keep current with the ever changing spam rules as they differ from the major email houses.
If you have a list with over 25% of your subscribers having email service from Yahoo, AOL, MSN, or Google, then it is wise to let your autoresponder handle this traffic AND THEY LET YOU KNOW what their delivery percentage is for these email heavyweights.
Going on your own and sending email from your commerce domain is asking for trouble. It is trivial to have your domain and IP address get added to a black list just because a few people decided to add you to their spam list rather than take the time to opt-out. Don’t put your real busines at risk. Use a good service, it’s worth it.
Keep up the great advice. Even if the delivery is a wee bit harsh.
Irwin Glenn
www.navagility.com
September 11th, 2006 at 11:39 pm
I just had to post because there really are a few issues here that Joe’s readers need to understand.
First, there is no reason for anyone to be “offended” by Joe’s post. He was expressing an honest and experienced viewpoint, one that he feels so strongly about, he felt he needed to write it in such a way that it would sink in. The reality is that in creating a message to your audience sometimes you really need to hit them hard for it to register how serious you are. Lets face it we have a lot of email and feedback to process. I actually didn’t even see the orginal article until this “issue” came to light. Congratulations to Joe for his success in making it a controversy
He made it pretty clear that this was based on his own experience, as well as feedback from other marketers. It certainly isn’t a commision issue as he could just as easily referred one of several other services, some with actually the potential to offer higher commisions.
While I don’t want to put words in the mouth of anyone, I personally suspect that the nice lady who wrote the orginal email may have mistaken 1shoppingcart for Aweber. This is because months back there was an issue with spamhaus and one of their servers, which caused servere delivery problems, until it was corrected. As a result many “big name” marketers started bad mouthing it and jumped ship, and it is possible this was confused with aweber. In fairness to 1shoppingcart, I should note they have stated that this issue has been long corrected.
I had written much more, but it was just too long so I am going to post it seperately. So read the post below for “the truth about autoresponders” and learn the truth behind the controversy.
September 11th, 2006 at 11:59 pm
The “Truth” About Autoresponders
Among home business/small business internet marketing professionals, aweber is generally considered the gold standard among autoresponders. For this reason Joe’s marketing tip probably isn’t a suprise to anyone that has been marketing online for a while.
I suppose what we need to do is take a moment and clarify why it is considered the top choice.
No one is trying to pretend that there aren’t other autoresponders out there, and truth is that I have personally vocally expressed a contrarian viewpoint in the past, BUT what needs to be made clear is that for most small and home businesses, aweber has been PROVEN to provide better delivery and service than anyone else in its class.
If you are not using aweber, you should KNOW why you are using a different service. I use multiple email solutions, but I am fully aware that aweber provides me the best delivery. If you have a specific need, then use the tool that you must, but if you are simply publishing a newsletter, collecting optins and leads,etc then aweber is for you.
There are other options like intellicontact and lyris, that -might- provide delivery of the same level but they can litereally cost $1000s per month and not neceesary for what is needed by most home and small businesses. I will may switch to one of these eventually, but for now, I go with what I know is proven to provide the best delivery.
Are there other services you can use? Sure, but your deliverability should be one of your key concerns. The undisputed winner on deliverability at a price level you can afford is aweber.
Are some of the pros using autoresponder plus aka “ARP3″? Sure, but many are also using aweber as well, and far as I know none have ever claimed that they get higher delivery rates.
As for why they would also use arp3?
Well to clarify for those unfamiliar, this is a script that you manage on your own server. Some “big” pros use it because they feel it gives them extra control over their lists, that they can’t get from a managed provider, and has nothing to do with the delivery quality of Aweber. It should be noted that if you have more than a tiny list that you need a dedicated server to use it. You also need to spend time on developing the deliverbility of your server and list, or they will never get delivered. To do this you need to use safelist services like habeas or another similiar service, and hire a email delivery expert to manage your lists, requiring extensive time, money and experience, beyond what most home based internet entrepreneurs are prepared for.
Hopefully this answers some of the questions raised in your minds regarding this issue.
September 12th, 2006 at 2:02 am
Joe:
Truly serious marketers understand one thing: Every autoresponder has it’s uses.
Being beholden to one autoresponder service (especially Aweber) will severely limit your marketing options. There are things you can do on other autoresponder services you can’t do with Aweber, and vice versa.
Does Tiger Woods use only one golf club? Does a mechanic have only one wrench? Does a carpenter have only one saw?
Then why limit your options with only one autoresponder service?
-Floyd Fisher
September 12th, 2006 at 3:44 am
Hi Joe,
Although I respect your right to give your opinion I feel that your take on Aweber being the ONLY responder service one should subscribe to a little too strong.
In fact it smacks of the hell fire and damnation type of fundamentalist preachers who try to scare people into following their religion because it’s the only hope of salvation for their poor lost souls.
I recently scouted around for an autoresponder and after investigating several ’self host’ packages along with Aweber and a couple of others came to the conclusion that one of the others was the best choice for me.
The self host types, whilst seemingly good, had a major drawback for me in that to ensure security of ones website in the event of spam complaints one needed to install the autoresponder on a different web host from ones main account - at an additional cost.
In the end I settled for Getresponse because after reading their sales page I felt they had more to offer than Aweber - I know I’ve made the correct choice but would never try to ram that choice down someone elses throat.
In fact I go out of my way to avoid websites and programs that only work on one particular browser so who am I to say that someone else must follow me.
I can recommend, yes, but try and force/scare someone into following my choice…
At the end of the day though, clients have the right to choose who to follow, just as you have the right to choose who you work with.
Thanks for an enlightening email.
Stuart Elliott.
September 12th, 2006 at 4:27 am
Hey Joe,
I agree that aweber is a great service. We have been using them for at least 8 years…we might have been in their first handful of customers. We’ve seen them add a lot of great features and they definitely stay up to speed on spam and delivery issues. I think their pricing is very fair as well…anyone who doesn’t probably hasn’t tried to run an online business of this nature before.
Ok now for my noodle lashing! If you did say that, “Anyone not using aweber is not worth taking seriously,” I think that’s a bit harsh! You are entitled to your opinions of course but you can do so while still respecting the opinions (and choices) of others. But I think I know you enough to realize you were just trying to stir it up..and at that you did succeed!
Hey if you have a minute, jump over to my blog to see what on earth (or in sea) Lobsters and Clams have to do with Team Work.
www.thepowerline.typepad.com
:-) PowerGal
September 12th, 2006 at 5:55 am
Hi,
I’m the sender of the original email that started this discussion. Seems like there are as many opinions on this topic as there are marketers, which is great!
I hope it did come through clearly that it was the how more than the what that caused my reaction, and that I did express my general appreciation for Joe’s work as well as for aweber- by no means was I trying to badmouth their service.
It was definitely about aweber that I heard of some problems, 1shoppingcart is a different story altogether. What it boils down to is this: it takes time for all the measures that the service has in place to deal with abusers of the system to take effect and in that time one spammer can affect the deliverability of whole banks of accounts.
I believe that if someone is going to take such a strong stand on something, they’d better show the numbers to back it up, something that a few people have brought up here. Over the coming year, I will test various scripts and maybe some hosted services as well, and then publish the results. And no matter what those results may be, I will not try to shove them down my readers’ throats as an absolute truth. I’ll still be highly interested in hearing about experiences that differ from mine and encouraging everyone to share and discuss them.
Like I said in my email to Joe, I think aweber is doing a great job overall,
it’s the tone in which I was being spoken to that made me feel like I had to speak up about this. And again Joe keep up the good stuff, my disagreement with one particular topic does not cancel out my appreciation for what you’ve been doing as a whole.
Peace,
Nicole
September 12th, 2006 at 8:24 am
I am using aweber and satisfied for sure…
the only problem with the monthly price is that setting up an autoresponder is one of the first steps in getting your online business active, and it could be several long months before you really start to see any activity on your account, or earn much money to pay for it. Yet you still have to pay your monthly $20 regardless of your success. For most people $20 is a drop in the bucket next to what the rewards are.
I did my research and despite having a free autoresponder program + a second one with my webhost, decided on PAYING for Aweber for its deliverability.
I like honesty. And I am grown up enough to know when I am being sold and when something is being praised for good service.
Best of luck
Andrea
www.chooseadirection.com
September 12th, 2006 at 9:40 am
We are Uk based, and can honestly say that our own experiences with Aweber on all fronts cannot be faulted.
Delivery is all but 100%, unheard off with ANY other Autoresponder, and the “Service” experienced is almost unbelieveable!
Being UK based and therefore in a different ‘Time Zone’ to AWeber, we didn’t get the Welcome telephone call mentioned above, but we did receive a Welcome letter via Snail Mail within a few days of joining, something we have never experienced with any other company is all our years on the Net.
Add to this first class ‘Tech Support’ if you ever have a problem, we believe it to be the very best value Autoresponder Service to be found anywhere on the Net.
September 12th, 2006 at 10:32 am
I had a sad experience with Aweber.
I’ve subscribed to it in July. And it worked good enough.
But when one month passed I had to pay bill for the next month. And this task occures quite difficult to me.
When I tryed to pay thru their payment form, my bank declined the payment. When I contacted the bank to find what is the matter, they told me that I must use CVV code. But there was no such requisit on Aweber form!
So it is. 2CheckOut has this requisit, ClickBank has it also, and Aweber has not!
I wrote a letter to Aweber staff but they didn’t want extra headache. It was easier to them simply suspend my account. Their programmers can fix this problem in a day, if they want. But they did not.
Maybe Aweber have too many clients now and it can afford to piss their customers off in such cases. So I can say that Aweber support is highly unfriendly and their service is not professional enough.
If I know that earlier I’d not subscribe to Aweber.
September 12th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Hi All,
I believe Joe’s intent was to help his subscribers avoid a serious mistake. Aweber is the only service with proven, long-term deliverability rates in excess of 90%.
This is no easy feat. We use 1shopp now because we chose to sacrifice deliverability for all-in-one integration. If I had to do it over again, we would go with Aweber, hands down.
My 2 cents
Tim
September 13th, 2006 at 6:56 am
I’ve been with Aweber for a little more than a year and I’m very happy I stopped using an in-house emailer. Just the fact that I’m not hosting the servers is great, but now I also know about spam complaints, have geopgraphical info easily accesible, and so on and so on and so on. I love my Aweber account. It is worth the recurrent outcome — as opposed to recurrent income, I mean
September 13th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
I like your mails
It gives me a good laugh to see everyone getting all hotted up
due to a piece of advice.
I have been on the net for three years now and i have heard all the mumbo jumbo on this product and that and i still fall for it now and then.
I take the advice then check out the facts if the figures or whatever look good then i may give it a go.
If the person advising me is that bothered about not working with with me or whatever then they i could not care less its my money hahah
if the person is passionate enough about a thing then they would follow up and ask why i have not joined this or that and give some alternatives that may fit well with my budget or whatever my reason for not joining is.
However in three years no one has ever done this therfore take the advise and then go on to make an informed choice.
In this case jo gave us the benifit of his personal experience (this is something you can not calculate a figure to) its up to us to get the facts on
the product or service and see if it fits with our business. Just ignore the hype laugh at the person writing and make the most of the advise given and move on.
September 27th, 2006 at 3:54 am
I get a kick out of over sensitive subscribers and their “I’ll unsubscribe” rhetoric. Quite honestly that’s a subscriber you don’t need, and if people have a problem with the “in your face” reality that is sorely needed in the ever over saturated internet marketing arena, they should shut down they’re email accounts, and immediatley ask the next person they see for a hug.
As far as Aweber goes, it is THE Ferrari of autoresponders. No one knows email deliverability, and has the kind of relationships with ISP’s that Aweber does. And what is this now with people complaining that it’s too expensive…huh? Even on a monthly subscription it works out to less than $250 a year to house the most important aspect of your online business…email marketing and database management…get a grip people.
And for marketers that are now resorting to managing everything in house…good luck! Who needs those headaches?
Bottom line, Aweber is the top choice for email marketing and list building solutions bar none!